Curse

kolakoski · Mar 01, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Well met!

As most of you are aware, negative threads concerning PUGs and the Guild Wars community appear regularly in this forum. My experience is at odds with what seems to be the prevailing opinion. I belong to a relatively small guild. As a result, especially when chest running or attempting to cap an elite, I go it alone. But when it comes to missions, especially the tougher ones, I generally PUG. Last night, for example, I wanted to do Vizunah with my relatively new, then lvl 13, Assassin. Of course, the search function displayed no information. I then turned on local chat. There were the usual spammers, but also, again as usual, various people looking for groups, groups looking for specific roles, runners, etc. I was, and, being an iconoclast, never am, one of the popular classes or builds. So I formed my own group, accepted most applicants readily, chatted with them as the group formed (the two necros were entertaining as they hashed out who was going mm and what skills to carry, etc.), and we were off. As usual, at least one of us knew what he was doing (no, it wasn't me, lol) and took the lead. We took Masters!

Roughly 80-90% of my PUG experience is this good. 90% of the rest is at least adequate. I believe it is because it is what I expect, and I actually talk with the people on my team. What I would like to know is whether I am alone in my experience or whether there are others like me. If you generally have good experiences with PUGs, please post a reply, and include how you go about selecting a group to join, form a group, etc. (Of course you are free to flame me as a naive fool, lol!)

Let me add that I have taken my main character to Hell's Precipice in Tyria, and a good bit of Cantha and Elona as well. (However, as Socrates once said: "[t]he beginning of wisdom is to admit to knowing nothing" (or words to that effect, lol).)

Wo Tan Ki, Ranger, Knights of Shadowpeak (KoS)

Kuldebar Valiturus · Mar 01, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

PuG's aren't dead, just comatose.

Occasionally it twitches a finger or sighs in response to verbal cues, but, generally, the prognosis for a full recovery is low as long as the PuG is deprived of sustenance.

PuG's are amazing, dynamic and offer widely varied experiences within a game. They are a standard of online gaming and a huge part of why people choose to play games. Unfortunately, the overall quality of PuG's degenerates rather quickly when not used with a certain level of frequency.

Also, heavy usage of Heroes and Henchmen has been known to reduce PuG'ing skills and social intercourse.

Gustin · Mar 01, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

i just look for someone doing the same mission as me. aside from that i don't really care. too often have i discovered how stupid some people are by trying to hold a conversation with them. so i just stay quiet and people don't even know i'm there, which is good. because i hate it when they ask me quesitons about my build and then think just because their secondary is ranger they can tell me how to play. i'm not going to rant now though

Grasping Darkness · Mar 01, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

I think it also has to do with the time and area you're playing. For example in a first mission area in cantha at 5 pm est usa you're probably not going to get a good pug group. In the domain of anguish at 3 am with a group of adults on vent or ts I generally find a highly experainced group that may fail once or twice but stays the course until we win. I stay guildless and pug because it's fun meeting new people. When I have been in guilds and play with a set group of people they wear on me after awhile and start to wierd me out.

mr_groovy · Mar 01, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

I don't think vizunah square says anything about pugging lvl. Especially not if you're doing local quarter. 1ouprob had luck getting a good foreign quarter group to do 80 % of the load. Btw what we're you thinking doing vizunah @ lvl 13? Lvl 18 is minimum, and it should be lvl 20. It's not like it's hard, or takes much time to get to lvl 20 in cantha. Quest exp galore.

DunedainJedi · Mar 01, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

PUG are always interesting. As I get further in the games I tend to do more stuff with guildies because I know how good they are, plus they all have monks.

I beat all of factions with a PUGs and most of Nightfall. All you need is a few people who know what they're doing. My guild leader and I found a random, good mesmers last night.

kolakoski · Mar 01, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

I don't think vizunah square says anything about pugging lvl. Especially not if you're doing local quarter. 1ouprob had luck getting a good foreign quarter group to do 80 % of the load. Btw what we're you thinking doing vizunah @ lvl 13? Lvl 18 is minimum, and it should be lvl 20. It's not like it's hard, or takes much time to get to lvl 20 in cantha. Quest exp galore.

Well met!

Excuse my audacity! What determines the minimun, pray tell? As it happens, I have been to Cantha before. My Assassin, Shodan Ki, has a Ranger secondary, skills from Kaineng City (max Exotic armor (chest and leggings were all I could afford at the time, lol), and the knowledge (and Green recurve) of Wo Tan Ki, lvl 20 Ranger, my main character, and the support of his guild, the Knights of Shadowpeak (KoS). However, I shall be certain to call on you before I allow him to go on any more missions, to be certain that he meets the minimum requirements (whatever they are), so as not to give offense (rofl)!

TheRaven · Mar 01, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Howdy, if you've read any of my posts here you already know that I love to PUG most missions. I agree that most of my PUG experiences have been fun (win or lose). 2 nights ago I went into the UW with a group advertising itself as a UW trapping group. My ranger joined up and very quickly I realized...

1. They weren't a trapping group.
2. They had no clue what a trapping group is.
3. Heck, I'm not even sure they knew what ranger skills are available.

But, they were all very nice, friendly and enjoyable to PUG with. We entered the underworld and stayed for an hour killing stuff and generally having fun. 1 of the guys really wanted to cap a spider so we did that.

I was tempted to leave the group before we warped in because I could tell they were clueless about trapping, but there were no other trapping groups forming and overall I'm glad I stuck it out with them.

I will agree with Mr Groovy, however. I too feel that Level 13 is too low for Viznuah Square and if I had been a group leader there I would have rejected you for that reason. The odds are that a Level 13 would be useless and I wouldn't want to risk our chances. I mean no offense by this and I'm also not saying that your assassin wasn't a valuable contribution to the team. It all depends on the player behind the keyboard. An experienced player with a brand new level 10 character is better than someone playing a Level 19 first character.

Bastard Son · Mar 01, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Every so often, I'll see something like the following conversation when I get into a town/outpost in the local chat:

Player 1: LFG for mish!
Player 1: LFG for mish!
Player 2: Just add heroes/henchmen
Player 1: I need human monks in party, not NPC
Player 2: No you don't. I've been all the way through to Abbadon's Gate without ever needing another human player in my party... ever

And that's great for that guy, but some of us like the teamplay aspect of fighting alongside other humans. I have to say, that in the past few days I've been in a PuG for the last handful of missions in Nightfall and each success has been nothing short of sweet. I feel more of a sense of accomplishment with a PuG than I ever have when I've solo'ed with heroes/henchmen. Sure, you get the AFK'er or the dude that drops halfway through, but in my experience that's the exception rather than the norm.

At any rate, keep the PuG scene going strong! I'd rather have a human monk or human nuker or human anything over the AI heroes/henchmen any day.

Omega X · Mar 01, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

Also, heavy usage of Heroes and Henchmen has been known to reduce PuG'ing skills and social intercourse.

LOL! That is hilarious.

It sounds just like a drug commercial for a condition only 1 out of 5 can get.

Jetdoc · Mar 01, 2007, 07:32 PM // 19:32

The quality of PuGs is definitely a ton better than many people would lead you to believe. It is human nature to remember those experience that were terrible and overlook the times that were good...even if those good times outnumber the bad times. Marv Levy was once quoted that he could win 14 games, but the pain of losing the 2 games during the season would carry with him well into the next season.

The title of this thread is a bit misleading, though. There is no arguing that the availability of PuGs has diminished....the cause of that is up to debate, however. If any of you doubt that claim, I challenge you to form a PuG (that contains no heroes or henchmen) in The Eternal Grove in less than 30 minutes.

JoeKnowMo · Mar 01, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastard Son

Player 1: I need human monks in party, not NPC

Most pugs I've been in of late have only hero monks. Just accept whatever classes and fill in the healer spots with heroes.

"6/8 lf 2 monks" is annoying to see, esp when you invite yourself to the team and see that they have 2 (non-healer) heroes in there.

Formed a pug for masters in the Eternal Grove last night in about 5 mins. 4 players and 4 heroes. We could have gotten a full human team (not sure about 2 healers though) but other players would not drop their heroes so we could invite them (even though we asked them to). I went there at primetime after finding 1 human there my previous 2 trips.

TheRaven · Mar 01, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

...... but other players would not drop their heroes so we could invite them (even though we asked them to).....

I will admit this is something that I find very very annoying. I don't mind taking Heroes at all, but I also feel that it should be the group leader's decision whether to take them or not. If the leader wants to drop the heroes in order to grab another human then it's extremely rude not to drop them.

If you feel strongly that your heroes are the better choice then please say so, but if the leader again asks to drop them, then drop them! Trust me, Koss won't get his feelings hurt when he's kicked.

I was leader once at Viznuah Square (one of these days, I'll learn to spell that) and a Level 20 monk joined up with us. He brought along 3 Level 8 heroes as well which filled up the team to 8 spots. I politely asked him to dump the heroes and we'd get more people. He said "No!! My heroes are the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" . Again, I told him to dump them since they were only Level 8. He refused and just spammed over and over again, "start mission!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I finally kicked him and found other players. I hated to kick a monk, but he would have been more hinderance than help.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not arguing that human players are better than the heroes. All I'm saying is that it should be the group leader's decision. If you disagree, politely state your case to the leader. If you still disagree then either bow to his decision or leave and start your own group.

blood4blood · Mar 01, 2007, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Last PUG I joined failed the mission we were doing first try (Eternal Grove). One person rage-quit, the rest stayed, and we got Master's on try #2. Most PUG's are adequate, some are good, some are bad. The problem is that there's no way to tell ahead of time what any given PUG is going to be like. Despite many good experiences, I've encountered enough sheer idiots of various stripes (everything from bad players to racist spammers) to permanently discolor my impression of PUG's.

Code=007 · Mar 01, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

It's pretty awesome that only one person could screw the pug, this happened me last night I was doing the Dzagonur Bastion mission, 1 ele got into our group, we were doing fine until he started pinging at his location i was calling target at a different spot so the party didnt focus and we failed, he left we got a rit, everyone followed targets, and we walked through the mission like a breeze, was awesome, we danced with the mobs and got masters in an incredible short time ñ_ñ i have to mention this was very fullfilling(sp?)

Kern Wolf · Mar 02, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

To the OP:
If you had to go by the forums, then yeah, PUGs are dead. But, when you play the game, PUGs are still holding their own.
I might use my W/E to go farming with hero's, but I like bringing my monk out of retirement every now and then, and helping PUGs with the Fire missions in Prophecies.
PUGs are doing fine...

Winstar · Mar 02, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

I fear pugging as a monk these days and would rather not with any other class. Most of the time I end up in a group that tosses in one hero monk with some god-awful and useless bar (stop with the vigorous spirit, please) and with little or no useful communication people are all over the map while I desperately run back and forth trying to heal and prot. I recall many times where my PUG absolutely failed to succeed at a mission so I simply drop after, grab heros and beat it in one go. I'm also in a reasonably large and active guild so if I happen to want to PvE I'll either get a guild team or most of a team or just do it solo. Really the PUG is pretty much dead to me. If I didn't have a guild I might be a little more inclined to PUG for the social aspect and the off chance of meeting people whose guild I might like to be a part of so for people in that position I can understand.

Etta · Mar 02, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

PUGs are still around, and it's good to hear that the OP's experience with pugs were good. But for some people including myself the bad pugs out weight the good pugs.

Yes it can be fun when the team come together and finished the mission/quest, but after that everyone would just say "GG" and left, you will never see them again. And as for the bad one, well most of you knew about it already.

These day most pvers are already in the Guild, and with the guildies and heroes, they won't need to spam LFG. Unless it's a really hard mission or elite area.

But yeah pugs are still out there. Be it good or bad.

Cebe · Mar 02, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

I don't think vizunah square says anything about pugging lvl. Especially not if you're doing local quarter. 1ouprob had luck getting a good foreign quarter group to do 80 % of the load. Btw what we're you thinking doing vizunah @ lvl 13? Lvl 18 is minimum, and it should be lvl 20. It's not like it's hard, or takes much time to get to lvl 20 in cantha. Quest exp galore.

This made me laugh so very hard!!

Now, I can't play melee characters especially well, but I tried out Dervish and found myself in the foreign quarter of Vizunah at lvl 14. I loaded up with non-lvl 20 heroes, and some hench and got full hench from the local quarter. I got Masters on the first try. Level 18 is minimum? You make me laugh!

*wipes tears from eyes*

Utaku · Mar 02, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

That's because Togo is a lame rit-spiker!